Trisha Walker and Greg Holsclaw (full podcast interview)_Audio

Trisha: [00:00:00] Revival starts in each individual heart, 

Greg Holsclaw: more followers of Jesus and more of Jesus and his followers. 

Trisha: Seeds For Your Marriage. Welcome to seeds for your marriage. I'm Trisha Walker and I have here with me Greg Holsclaw. He is a founder of Revival Valley Ministries, a Bible college.

President of that's here in California. He's also just a pastor, an author, technology manager, jack of all trades, a husband, but one thing I actually really love is he wrote this book. It's called supernatural theology. And, I've just been going through it and I just really love Greg's passion for God's heart and how he loves to see people get passionate for God's heart and to encounter him in all their areas, like all walks of their life.

Yeah. Welcome, Greg. 

Greg Holsclaw: Thank you so much for having me for inviting me on. I'm [00:01:00] glad to share what I can to you and your audience here. 

Trisha: Yeah, so I guess I just wanted to start by, first I was just really just even in your intro, I was captured by a testament that you had in there about, Someone who, a woman that was in part of your group that you were hanging out with, and her father was deathly ill and in the hospital.

And his organs were failing and he was literally on his deathbed. And you all prayed for him and then you found out a few days later that he completely turned around, walked out of the hospital like 24 hours later, and was doing really well. So, I mean, that's really cool. Just that start of the miracle for him, I'm sure just really stirred you up in your faith, but I wanted to start with that miracle.

Cause I just love hearing testimonies of miracles in people's lives. 

Greg Holsclaw: Yeah, that was early on my journey and interesting. There was a long pause actually between my journey and [00:02:00] growing with the Lord. So I'll just share that story. It was during my college group time. I was 19, 20 years old and somebody came late to the party and her Best friends.

Father was in the hospital, and he had flesh eating disease was going septic and wasn't expected to make it through the night. So, you know, we were playing around the pool table in the garage, and we just we can't have a fun college Friday night with that kind of news. So we all, you know, put our little games down and changed our conversations.

And we just prayed. For a little while. We're like, well, let's just pray. Nobody had really taught us how to pray. I wasn't really a part of a church that was really expectant for miracles. But while we were, while other people were praying, I just had this idea. I'm like, just pray that you'd be out of the hospital by tomorrow.

And I, it just like came out of my mouth. And I was like, wow, that was really bold. On reflection, 10 years later, when I sort of got more into understanding and being able to describe that was like a word of faith or a prayer of faith. It just kind of bubbled up right out of me and I just prayed it.

And then, yeah, [00:03:00] when we met at the college group on Tuesday night, she came back with a similar report and said he was out of the hospital by the next day. And I was like, wow, the problem was I wasn't a part of a community that really cultivated. Testimonies and had an expectation that that should be normal.

It was sort of the one in a million. So I had a one in a million story. Praise the Lord. God heals everyone in a million prayers. And it took about 10 years before I joined a community that really said, no, that should be. A regular expectation of all Christians. And so I use that as an example of, I wish I was a part of a community that fertilized and part of the reason for that book is to help create communities or expectation that was greater than the one I grew up in.

Trisha: I love that. Praise God for that miracle. And 

Greg Holsclaw: I 

Trisha: mean you talk about it's the same faith, but a different walk And you're mentioning here just about the expectation and raising our expectation in the miracles of god Can you explain a little bit about that and how? That happened in your [00:04:00] life and what shifted for you?

Greg Holsclaw: Well, my wife was very patient because she grew up in a church that was a little bit more expectant of the things of God, pray for healings, of words of knowledge, people encouraging through prophetic utterance. So she grew up in that church, but then she's for various reasons, migrated to the church that I was a part of during our college years.

And that's where we sort of cultivated our friendship and eventually turned into marriage. So she had been prodding me pretty regularly, and she was actually joining forces with my mom to get me more in tune with the spirit. My, one of my life verses is John 4:14 where the father seek worshipers who worship in spirit and in truth.

And I had been really emphasizing the truth part of being a worshiper of God. And for a long time, and my wife was one of those encouragements Add to not replace the truth emphasis, but add to it that spirit emphasis. How do you cultivate being a walker in the spirit? One who walks with faith. And so through a friend finally we sort of got introduced to [00:05:00] a house church that was really cultivating those things.

So my wife, she was like, yes, let's go to that. I was a little hesitant, but after about a month, I'm like, Oh, this is, this isn't different, it's just, Again, their theology matched mine, but their expectation, really what I'm saying by expectation, their faith was leaps and bounds higher than mine. And so they drew me up into that same faith.

Trisha: That's wonderful. So how long have you been married? 

Greg Holsclaw: We'll be 22 years later in June. 

Trisha: I love that. Yeah. I, I just. It's makes a real difference in people's lives, especially in marriages, when two people are really pursuing God and really trying to tune their here to hear him. Because when they do that, their hearts can just align a lot quicker and there's Tim tends to be usually less friction and they can just really move forward, I guess, at a more peaceful rate and even a [00:06:00] faster rate, I believe with the Lord, when they're able to do that together.

Greg Holsclaw: Agreed. 

Trisha: That's great. I love that. Well, you It makes talk about spiritual gifts. So when you were talking about how you were teaching some of that, and I know you mentioned it in your book as well. Can you just explain to me when you're talking about discovering your spiritual gifts, what are you referring to? And Dive into that a little bit for me.

Greg Holsclaw: Sure. So I sort of grew up in the idea that we might get one spiritual gift and maybe the Lord's got a little bit for us and that's found, you know, 1st Corinthians chapter 12, where it talks about there's one spirit, there's one body, there's one faith, but there are many gifts in these days. These gifts are given and then there's sort of an opposite idea that, you know, we all have the Access to the Holy Spirit And so, you know anytime God needs to express one of his spiritual gifts through me He will and I believe that both of those have a little bit of truth in it But a little later in 1st Corinthians 12, it does talk about you know That the eye can't say [00:07:00] to the rest of the body.

I don't need you or the hands say I don't need you And so it sort of shows that That like we do have an enduring identity with some of these gifts. I do believe that all of them are available to each of us as the Holy Spirit leads, but also he uses it in a regular capacity in a regular fashion. And so discovering how the Lord has crafted us and has endowed us with his spirit, of course, so that we can be a regular blessing and even anticipates that he's, he wants to use me either for the gift of healing or a gift 

 or a word of wisdom.

And actually words of wisdom was the first one that I knew I was stewarding, even in my. Evangelical context that wasn't really stirring up the spirit. A gift of wisdom is one that they could sort of recognize. And they're like, you just really help people work through hard problems relationship difficulties.

And so they were sort of blessing that. And so I added an intentional pursuit. Like, well, if I have a gift of wisdom, then I should go read Proverbs. So I'm full of God's wisdom. And then I found in James 3:17 that there was this seven faceted description of what wisdom looked like. It's [00:08:00] sincere and it's impartial.

It's peaceable. It's still open to reason. And so I'm like, oh, okay. I want to steward my gift of wisdom. So it looks like that. And then it has the content of, so that was me intentionally cultivating that spiritual gift. And so. So then when I you know, sort of noticed that you could sort of do that for all of the gifts, you're like, well, if I have a gift of healing, then reading those, you know, what's the biblical basis for healing?

So you could build up your own faith and the person you're going to pray for, that God still wants to do this. Randy Clark and various other ministry schools have, you know, a five part healing model just for, just to help guide prayer. And those things just become useful ways to help us lean into what the Spirit is doing and wants to do.

And so prophecy, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, all of them have ways that you can, what sometimes we in ministry school or at the Bible college say, activate, but really we're not activating something. God hasn't placed in us. We're just learning how to partnership with what he already put in us.

Roman says our gifts and our callings are irrevocable when he's deposited in us, [00:09:00] our physical makeup, our intellectual and emotional makeup, but also our spiritual gifts he's placed in us and he doesn't take those back the gifts he gave him to us. And so what does it mean to proactively or intentionally steward things he's given us these spiritual gifts.

And so that's really, ? The beginning before we got part of the Bible college. We just were, I was just. Partially, well, how can I do this for myself? Because I can't give what I don't have. And then now that I've, you know, been doing it a little bit. Okay, how can we, you know, my dearest friends, I want all of this.

There was a joke in a book where a pastor, he had activated, he'd learned how to do that for himself. And then everybody was coming to him for prophetic words and healing prayer. And so he decided, Oh, I need to teach the rest of the congregation this. So I'm not the only person who gives encouraging words and prays for the sick.

So really, he was trying to offload ministry, which is exactly what making disciples is all about. So then we, like, how can we, you know, create other people who sort of look like Christ and get there faster than it took [00:10:00] me. Because, like, the first story we mentioned was about 19 and I was 33 before I really started being intentional.

Like, let's get that down to months, not 14 years. 

Trisha: That's really great. So this is not just available to those who are in ministry or pastors or this is available to everyone, right? 

Greg Holsclaw: Amen. Yep. Yes, it is. Ephesians 4: 11-12 says that all the saints have a ministry. So I almost try not to say so and so's in ministry and the rest aren't.

It's like all of us have a ministry. Some are just in certain pastoral or full time capacities where they're supported by the rest of the body. But all of us have a ministry and all of us need to learn. And that's why the, to go back to your earlier question, discovering your spiritual gifts, all of us have that invitation to, to learn, to partner more deeply with the Lord.

But then I love First Corinthians 14 verse one, which says, and earnestly desire spiritual gifts. And so it's giving us permission. To pursue those. And then he says, [00:11:00] especially prophecy. Cause that's one, when I started this journey about 12 years ago, I'm like, I don't know how to prophesy. I know how to encourage people.

I know how to steward wisdom, but what does it mean to bless somebody, to give them comfort, to give them encouragement, to strengthen them through a word that comes from the Lord. And so I became an intentional pursuit. I joined a men's group where we prayed for each other for 30 minutes. And then for 30 minutes, we just tried really hard.

We're not really hard. We tried to flow with the spirit and grow in our prophetic abilities. 

Trisha: That's great. Well, I see on I was looking on revival valley. com and it said, there was a statement that said revival starts in each individual heart as a kingdom of God increases in each of us, it permeates the region people and culture around us.

So, I mean, you were talking a little bit about revival and if you were to define revival in one sentence. What would that be to you? 

Greg Holsclaw: Yes. A hundred people have a hundred definitions of revival and [00:12:00] yes, I've been working on my own. I really believe that revival is just a, you know, a rapid outpouring of God's kingdom.

But then the way I add more to that it means one more, found in Jesus. I say more followers of Jesus and more of Jesus and his followers, which is soul saved and discipleship. We cherish the things he cherished, and then we move and walk and work the way he did, which is, you know, a spirit. We have the heart of the Father for we love one another and we love the world as he loved the world.

But then also we move like he did when we minister through the power of God. The compassion of the Holy Spirit. So that's, that's my quick definition. More followers of Christ and more of Christ than his followers. But the way you mentioned it, I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying like my emphasis in the way that the Lord's asked me to sort of influence is different than others.

Some other people have more of a, a top down, like if we can, if we can change certain institutions or we can change, you know, sort of how the government functions, then we can impact society. And I think that's a valid call. It's not my call. I've, [00:13:00] I grew up as a small group discipler. I grew up as, you know, I just want to see the person right in front of me.

Take that next step toward Jesus. Take that next step in growing in faith and understanding of who God is and who they are. So I just, this one on one discipler. And so that's just, that was my heart. But I, I believe, you know, being now a student of revival and revival history of, you know, since Pentecost until, you know, Until now that, that a lot of times, and maybe the more typical is just individual hearts being changed over and over and over again.

And as, as a whole region, as hearts get changed, like in the Wales revival of the early 1900s, you didn't need legislation to close the bars and get the boxing matches. They lost all their customers because they got saved, filled with the passions of the Lord and started doing kingdom things instead, and bars closed and boxing rings were unattended.

Not because of a law. But because no one was interested anymore. And so, so that's where I really think an outpouring of revival. It's because we're doing the work of ministry, blessing our [00:14:00] neighbors, trying to bring the kingdom in our businesses on being intentional about some evangelism outreaches and gathering lost souls.

Into the family of God as we do that, we're going to displace the darkness in the region. We're going to bring kingdom transformation into an area. And so I really am sort of a bottom up revival kind of person. And that's why we just want people filled with the Holy Spirit, understanding their place in their call.

So I talked about the gift, you know, everybody has a gift. The gifts and callings of God are irrevocable. So first I usually start off like, well, do you know what your gifts are? Do you know how God regularly uses you to bless the world and bless the family of God? And then I eventually will shift in my discipling.

Do you know what you're called to? Do you, are you participating in the longer journey of, of years that God's giving you intentional invitations for you to grow and to represent him in greater capacities? In the world. And so I see that as our calling. So one's our gifts and the others. Are our invitations and invitations take longer to sort of cultivate.

David was anointed. [00:15:00] King David was anointed by the prophet Samuel, but it took 17 years before he actually became king. So that call took a lot longer. He was blessed. He was anointed, but he had to participate with this call. So that's the other part of discipleship is. Stewarding our prophetic words that might take years to unfold.

And are we partnering with them really well? And then am I growing my character alongside my gifting? Am I, am I growing in my love capacity with my, you know, my, my wife, first and foremost, you know, God also, and then the people that I'm regularly with, you know, do they find me as a loving, caring, gentle, compassionate person, or, you know, in my other descriptions.

And so I do want our character as well as our stewardship of our prophetic words and our gifting to sort of, you know, grow. 

Trisha: I would agree that I, I mean, I personally believe that the foundation of all of society, the building, you know, the foundation of institutions, the, the foundation of even government and the business world, it's all, like the foundation is [00:16:00] family.

And it's really built on family, right? And if we know how to cultivate a strong family, and allow to love each other well, and allow Christ to move through us well, then we can go out and reach And make a difference in those cultures or societies that you're talking about. So I agree 100 percent just about the, it starts with us and it starts, we, it's amazing.

Just the ripple effect of just affecting even just three people in our inner circle, right? And then it can move to even five people, but just those people that they affect, and that's how I believe society gets changed. 

Greg Holsclaw: Yeah, and I, I know, and I, I've swung to the side. I'm trying to find the balance where we want that, you know, in the charismatic church or the churches that are really pursuing the Holy Spirit.

We want people to have that encounter. Like they're healed because of God's. And we say it's God's love for you and his compassion wants to heal you. [00:17:00] Or we want to give a really dramatic prophetic word. But I remember that the churches that I used to be a part of, you know, where I met my wife and others, like they just loved people really well.

They just spent time with them. They had a gift of hospitality and they're, they're all needed. They actually, all of those expressions of God and God's love helps capture people. Into, into his heart. And yes, when we speak a truth, maybe prophetically, or somebody does get healed, they encounter God one way, but it's not necessarily better than a, just a love encounter of somebody with a mercy gift who just spent time with somebody when they were just struggling or somebody with a hospitality gift that just makes sure that somebody who's going through a cancer treatment has food all the time and has somebody praying for them.

Like both of those. Really help. And I, like you said, family, sometimes challenging, like if the world or an unsafe person looked in on communities, I'm a part of, will they be drawn to the love? Like, you know, first John says, you know, they'll know us for our love. Well, they want to be like, I want to be a part of that [00:18:00] family.

It's not dysfunctional. It's not backbiting. It's not crabby and angry. Like my family, that looks like a loving family. That's an amazing invitation, just like the amazing invitations like, you know, they saw somebody get healed or they heard this, you know, they heard God's voice speak over them. I think all of those are needed and emphasizing one or the other is like hopping on one leg instead of running with two legs.

Trisha: That's great. Yeah. Yeah. And I like to pull out to what you were talking about is there's the character and there's the spirit as well, like growing in the spirit with God and learning how to move with the Holy Spirit and allow how to understand what our gifts are, how to activate them, you know, in all of our, in all areas of our lives.

But. Growing our character, too. We've seen so many stories. We've heard of just countless stories of pastors that have fallen or there's been this happened [00:19:00] or that happened and while they were maybe Miracles were happening or things, you know things they were had a huge ministry huge church, whatever it was something with what their character was Was deficient.

I guess they didn't focus on their character. And so I do really believe that the outside world that maybe hasn't necessarily Had that encounter with God or doesn't really understand what a relationship with Christ is Can look at somebody like that and say I mean we can't be perfect obviously, but can look at that and say I don't understand.

Like, I don't understand what just, what happened there. How can, you know, all of you be doing all of these great things, or have this massive church, but yet This happened, you know, I really agree with the character building , what are some suggestions you have in, how to build your character, how to grow in your character with God while you're also pursuing spiritual gifts.[00:20:00] 

Greg Holsclaw: Yeah, and that's a really good question. And I don't think, you know, we're all in ministry. Everybody who's hearing this has a, an opportunity and invitation before the Lord to represent him really well in a business setting and an education setting, you know, member of a parent teacher conference, or, you know, or as, you know, a full time paid minister.

And so all of us are in ministry and balancing. What does it mean to do that ministry, but not neglect the things that the Lord holds precious? And so, you know, I know that this seeds of marriage, and so I'm going to, you know, go to the marriage. How do we make sure that God holds my wife precious or all of our spouses precious?

If I lose caring for my spouse, my wife, then I'm not holding her as precious as the Lord does. Now, is he going to remove my gifts in my calls because I'm doing that? No, I may, I still might be effective in ministry, but I won't be as effective in ministry. I, 'cause I've lost God's heart. And if I've lost God's heart for the, you know, person closest to me, my, my wife, my spouse, or [00:21:00] my, children, for those who do, then I'm not stewarding all of God's heart.

And by definition, if I've lost part of God's heart because I'm not caretaking for my own family, then I am, I'm not gonna be as effective in ministry. I'm gonna, I'm not gonna be able to represent love. As well, because I've lost connection with his heart for my spouse. And so that's why cultivating those things really helps us because as I continue to ask God, how can I love my wife?

And I continue to pursue that because that is obviously one of the strongest relationships that I have here on earth. That's going to keep me strong, you know, physically, emotionally. Mentally and spiritually as the strength of my family. So that's really important. John Wimber gave some pastoral advice to a mentor and it just really resonated with me and he made sure he said platform ministry Is just as anointed as ministry to your wife and kids The quiet time that you're spending with your kids or a birthday party or when you go to a bounce house with your children Is just as important to God just as [00:22:00] holy As platform ministry or evangelism or whatever, those other things that were invited into, he holds those very precious justice, precious as the platform.

And so John Wimber was trying to make sure that all of his church planters made sure that they kept, it's always a tension. Do I have an hour here? What do I do there? So I'm not going to try to dissolve the tension, but when we stop holding those intention and just say, well, ministry is more important.

Then we've, we've lost the thread because it's not more important. They're equally important to God. They're, they're precious in a sight. And we need to make sure that our sons that are in a daughters, our, wives or husbands are just as precious to us as they are to God, even as we do all the ministry invitations he has invited us to.

That's not original to me. I'm just regurgitating things that other forefathers and mothers have, you know, placed in the network that I'm a part of. And so I'm really just trying, me just saying it again, you know, in this podcast with you is I'm just saying it again to myself actually as well. 

Trisha: Yeah. I love that.

Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I, I do agree. [00:23:00] And. You know, my husband and I have a, a marriage ministry, we do a few different things. I do some inner healing work as well, but we really have a passion for couples and for helping people deepen their relationship with each other and maybe even family members or, you know, relationships that they, close relationships they have, how to grow in that, but also at the same time, how to grow in God.

And so I, I do believe that there is that. There's that element. There's that relational element of our, you know, when we're talking about refining our character, it's not just one way. It's not just one way with God where, okay, well, I'm reading my Bible every day with you and I'm doing this with you.

And, and my, my whole focus is on you and our character isn't only built that way. It's also built this way with relationships with other people. And it's in. Those conversations that we have or when we're getting flustered and how we respond or how we deal with, you know, situations with different people that [00:24:00] really helps us to define how we're going to handle it, who we are, what our morals are, what the foundation is that we believe.

So yeah, I really, that's really great. I love that. So, well, I, let me just ask in your five years that you've been, how long have you, Then doing Revival Valley. 

Greg Holsclaw: Well, we've been doing that sort of bi vocationally since 2016. So about eight years in the Bible college we've been doing for the last four and a half.

Well, before you ask a question, can I ask you a question on, on that topic? 

Trisha: Yeah. 

Greg Holsclaw: So, because one, one thing that I've noticed when it comes to the ministry and the, the marriage questions. Is that sometimes when people come to me to sort of adjudicate those, they want me to be a judge and it's really difficult because the Lord's called us to be peace, you know, we're supposed to judge certain things, you know, right and wrong, [00:25:00] but usually those kinds of conflicts, they're not about sin.

It's about emphasis. It's about finding the right rhythm. And so trying to be a peacemaker where we bring the people together, but not judge. Cause one's like, well, affirm that the wife is correct. So the husband gets in line or affirm that the husband's correct. So the wife gets in line. And I try to really resist those because peacemakers aren't supposed to be judges.

So I just be curious just a little bit, cause that's something I struggle with and I'm sure you do too. 

Trisha: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I really think the beginning of your sentence here on your website, where it says revival starts in. Each individual heart is, is that just really resonates with me? Because I really believe that if we're only looking out and we can't.

Look in and see how, like, what are my actions that I'm doing that are causing maybe part of some of this issue, then you, we [00:26:00] can't help the relationship move forward. Both people have to take ownership and where they are and what they're bringing to the table or not bringing to the table. And I, so I, we really emphasize just both people becoming fully self aware and not looking at.

Like judging the other person, not looking at the other person, but how, what, how am I experiencing this? And it's not the blame on the other person, but it's just my experience of what the situation is. And how can I convey my experience to this other person without assuming that it's That they're the problem, right?

I mean, they could be the problem without, without making that assumption. And so, but when both people can do that and they can get aligned on what is it they really want. And when two people can get aligned on that and aligned on, what is it that I want for myself? What is it that I want for this person?

Not from them? Like, not what do I want from them, but what do I want for them? And we can [00:27:00] start aligning our hearts on that. It, it really helps to allow people to, I guess, get those scales off of, of seeing their partner through maybe a filter that maybe isn't there and really starting to, we call it the secret sauce, like being able to, when we can get aligned on our wants, that's the secret sauce.

And, and, and it starts a foundation of really like starting to like, Allowing ourselves, okay, God, how, how do you want me to see my partner? Like starting to see our partner through the eyes of God, allowing him to change our hearts for them. And. 

Greg Holsclaw: Love it. 

Trisha: Yeah. Yeah. 

Greg Holsclaw: Mm hmm. Great. Thank you so much. 

Trisha: Yeah. So I would love to hear what, so within the last, you know, four years and since 2016, when you started Revival Valley, do you have any testimonies, I love hearing testimonies, any testimonies of just some things God has done through your [00:28:00] community?

Greg Holsclaw: Yeah. And we, in our, in our teaching and training, when we do prophecy, we say prophecy doesn't need to be profound. To be powerful. And so this one lady, she, she came from a very Bible heavy church. And it was great, but she really wanted to prophesy more. And so, so we'd get in circles, and what she would do is she would just quote a scripture verse.

And she's like, oh, I'm just quoting scripture verse. But like four times out of four, she was quoting the life verse of that person. It's just what popped in her head, and it was like, you know, one of the most valuable verses for that person. And so the person felt seen, and they felt affirmed by God, because God gave this older lady their life verse.

And so they felt seen, but the lady actually is like, Oh, I'm not prophesying. I'm just quoting Bible verses. And so, so we started telling like timely. Quotation of scripture can be very prophetic because it can actually just bring a lot of comfort or for them It brought this encouragement of being seen and noticed by God in that moment And maybe they really [00:29:00] needed that and then sometimes just really simple sayings like, you know, I saw a young mother Who is maybe being, you know, we, we didn't know, but she was being criticized by her mother or mother in law for not raising her children very well or something, and so somebody who doesn't know anything about it just turns to them and simply says, you know, I just feel like God says, you're a good mother.

And the lady just starts crying because she's being affirmed that her approach to parenting her children, though it's different than her mother in law, is actually full of love. And she, you know, it's nothing profound, but it's so powerful to just say some of those kinds of things. And so seeing that just in these activations of people who are on ramping into more of the Holy Spirit, I just want to encourage any of your listeners, sometimes that is very, very prophetic.

You are hearing from the Lord in a powerful way. It just doesn't sound profound, but it's highly encouraging. And I believe. That the kingdom of God, I believe the family of God and the world is very under encouraged. And that is actually one of the working outs of the prophetic gift [00:30:00] is to just simply bring timely encouragement.

Sure. Whatever that ministry is, Ephesians 4: 11-12 says all the saints have in the ministry and we're being equipped by God and by the, the leaders around us, that there's never a dichotomy, there's never. Supposed to be, I, I heard it this way. Our spouse is never an obstacle for us doing God's call in our life.

And if we ever think that our spouses are obs in an obstacle, then we've probably got something wrong. Like you said, I'm seeing my stuff and I'm seeing their stuff and they're not aligned. And so I loved what you said that they're supposed to be in line. And if we're really hearing for God for, you know, at least if they're believing spouses if, if we're really aligned with what God's saying in my life and my spouse's wife, there's going to be more alignment than maybe I see in it.

And if I think my spouse is an obstacle. That I'm not seeing things quite from God's way because there shouldn't be that, you know, dichotomy either I'm doing God's will in my life and ministry or I'm doing something with my family. That means the whole our premises are [00:31:00] wrong. If we're sort of stuck in that kind of place, it means revisit everything and talk to God because he really wants us to thrive in our families as we represent him in the ministry season by this.

Trisha: Absolutely. That's great. Yeah. I know there's a hot word right now in the world. It's called limiting beliefs. And so what are, you know, what are our limiting beliefs about our spouse? And it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. It just could just be how we are perceiving it ourself. And but if we were to get rid of that limiting belief and really believe, like ask God what he believes about our spouse and how they might even be helping us, but we're not really seeing it.

It just, like you said, it shifts our perspective. 

Greg Holsclaw: Yeah. Sure does. 

Trisha: And I think also just forgiveness is so key to, I think I didn't bring that up earlier when you were asking me that question, just forgiveness really helps to get the offense out of our heart. Because if we have, we were holding an offense we can't see our partner in, [00:32:00] in the right light.

Greg Holsclaw: Yeah, absolutely. 

Trisha: Well, great. Thank you so much. I'm really appreciative of all your advice and your wisdom.

Greg Holsclaw: Well, thank you so much for having me. It was great to connect a few months ago, and I look forward to all the upcoming connections the Lord might lead.

Trisha: We pray this episode has given you tips and tools on how to thrive in your marriage. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at TrishaNThomas. 

Thomas: We want to hear from you. Be sure to leave a review and let us know how we're doing. It's our desire that this podcast completely benefits you.

So also let us know future marriage topics that you would like to hear about.